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| Can sound
signs (letters) be used for numbers?
Until Hindu-Arabic logograms were adopted circa 1000 ce, letters were routinely used by the Phoenicians, Greeks, and others to express numerical concepts. One reason for a conventional alphabetical order was to support this use. Using Numbers
as sound signs to augment ASCII letters
Egyptian and Semitic shapes According to paleographer, Benjamin Sass, the original Semitic letter shapes were borrowed from the Egyptians during the middle Egyptian period (1800-1600 bc). The pictographic and acrophonic notions also played a role in the early alphabet development. The objections to using numeric symbols for sound signs (Critic) "We already confuse 1 and l , 0 and o as well as B and 8. We don't need to add to the confusion by adding a 2 -zh and 5-sh ambiguity. " (SB) Logically, there can be no confusion
since zh and sh are never used without a vowel.
(Critic) In principle, an orthography should not use digraphs for pure sounds or silent letters as markers. When one uses the ASCII character set there are not many options. This is why Chekt Spelling notation uses numbers (logograms) as sound signs. The only rationale for keeping the h as a marker is to retain a visual connection to TO. Before 1100, the c was used in this role (scip=ship) where c=ch. I don't believe that new codes should be non-romic unless there is an over-riding reason. In this case there is. Another option in some typefaces is a small v diacritic above the s and z.
Can numbers be used as sound signs? Yes, but they are language specific. "4 Sale" only makes sense in English where four has the same sound as for. In Spanish the sign would be read [kwahtro-sahleh]. The four shape [ 4] may be related to the 4th letter in the ancient "alef-bet." It may be related to the daleth (delta). Until around 800 ad, the letters were used in Greece and the Middle East as numbers so there was a strong association between delta and the concept of four. Early forms of delta (daleth) had a stem and resembled the 4 shape. Ancient alphabet design principles The Semitic orthographers borrowed Egyptian ideas on alphabet design. According to the ancients, the letter shape should resemble a familiar object and the letter sound should be the initial sound in the name of the familiar object. (acrophonic-pictographic) Some of these associations can be used today: B=building, D=door, H=eight Number forms/names vs. letter forms/names Egyptian number forms and number names were not directly related to letter forms and letter names. Semitic number forms were. The Semites were into simplification. The Egyptians seemed content with codes that were more difficult than necessary. In one of his short essays, Mark Twain drew a parallel between the Egyptian reluctance to simplify and the resistance that English speakers have against changing their overly complex orthography. Ancient shapes
and significances
Was Egyptian Culture Static While we think of Egyptian writing and speech as unchanging over their 4000 year history. Pictorial Hieroglyphics were static but shorthand versions (hieratic and demotic) were developed and these changed over time. The language changed so much that some of the original letter names were lost. In other words, the popular names for the pharoahs hen, flowering reed, and arm changed obscuring the mnemonic. Since pictorial hieroglyphics never changed after their introduction around 3200 b.c., we can see the reference but in some cases we have no clue as to the name or pronunciation beyond the sound of the initial letter. Sometimes the reference is
a little obscure. Many of the early interpretations have been discredited
and one sometimes wonders how solid some of the current interpretations
really are. Some scholars question whether or not hieroglyphics were
consistently acrophonic. Perhaps it was the dominant sound which
followed a very weak initial vowel.
References Go to Amazon.com and search on number Danzig, T. Number
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Spelling Links at www.delphi.com/spelreform
Ancient Semitic Letters Hieroglyphics
Comments
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(Madjukar) RE: Using numbers as sound signs. This alphanumeric confusion
needs some thinking.
Numerals 0(zero)1(one)2(two)5(five) and letters o(open) l(lamp) z(zoo)
s(sit) resemble, and one is misread for the other.
(Steve) That is the point, why not take advantage of any similarities and make 2 zh and 5 sh. The only alpha numeric ambiguity I am concerned about is the zero letter O and the captial B and 8.
This is usually disconcerting when you are trying to copy long serial numbers.
(MG) I have seen your scheme, and am not so comfortable with lots of apostrophe marks appearing in the text. No doubt French etc use diacritic marks, and in principle nothing wrong in apostrophe marks, but I am stating my general impression.
(SB) The shwapostrope always refers to the same thing, a central vowel.
I am open to alternative marker. Some people like oo and uu but how
do you keep the reference straight.
oo iz illogical for anything other than a long o <o:>. The marker
has to be unobtrusive and neutral as far as a sound value. That is what
makes the schwapostrophe idea. X is also pretty good. I use if for [dh
- eth].
(MG) So I suggest an informal new language (like Pitman shorthand, nobody objects to it) Chemists standardize symbols. Thus Ca=calcium,C=carbon, no interchange.Where is the agency to standardize reformed spellings ?
(SB) The Globish proposal is not unlike the Anjel proposal. Its a good
idea but you still have to find the community of users.
There is no agency to standardize reformed spellings. What we do have
are pronunciation dictionaries which are in agreement about 95% of the
time. All we are trying to do is come up with an ascii notation that can
substitute for the turned e, c, and v which require a special font. We
are also trying to substitute for ou [o'] and perhaps ai [y] since these
can be confusing for an audience brought up on TO. e.g., oat=out.